Rewatchables Reference

• Bill: The 14th round – 'Down, down, stay down.' 'Rocky' keeps getting up, Apollo with the shoulder slump ('man, fucking kidding me'). Adrian comes out, the music kicks in. Also: the Spider Rico fight pre-credits, Apollo breaking out his bicentennial plan, Gazzo's driver ('I heard she's retarded, take her to the zoo'), Jergens making 'Rocky' the offer, Mickey trying to convince 'Rocky' to hire him ('the door opening and closing'), and then the ending – 'Don't want one. Where's your hat? Still champion, Apollo.'
• CR: The Gonna Fly Now training montage – 'one of the best sports movie scenes of all time.' Also the first failed 5 AM training session ('the most miserable thing ever').
• Van: 'Rocky' and Adrian's first date at the ice skating rink – 'Rocky's talent is determination. He's going to get her on the ice rink.' CR loves that the rink employee keeps yelling '8 minutes!' – 'it gives their date urgency.'
• Also discussed: Cut Me Mick ('so gross'), the TV interview in the meat freezer, the poster scene at the Spectrum ('they got my trunks wrong'), and the bar crowd reacting to the first-round knockdown.

• Bill: Good-natured winos and doo-wop singers versus 'just fentanyl addicts, which we would have now. People with no pants on just wandering in a circle.' Drunk street characters were benevolent movie characters in the 70s.
• CR: White doo-wop groups on street corners. 'Have you ever seen a group of men singing in harmony on a street corner in real life? No.'

• CR: The Steadicam – this was its breakthrough movie. Garrett Brown invented it and the museum steps run was his idea. Also: Stallone's real dog Butkus (he sold the dog for $50 when broke, bought it back after selling the script).
• Bill: The music and soundtrack – 'Gonna Fly Now' still played at the start of every 4th quarter in America. The 5 AM failed training montage. 1970s Philly as a setting. The meat freezer. Gazzo's driver as comedic genius.
• Van: The sports movie itself – 'without the success and cultural penetration of this movie, the sports movie period is just much different. This is the Marlon Brando of sports movies – it changes the archetype.'
• Bill: Talia Shire – three Best Picture movies in five years (Godfather, Godfather 2, 'Rocky'). 'Like a Scottie Pippen kind of 90s Bulls run.' Also: 'Rocky' marathons on TV once they got to 3 or 4.
• CR: The actual turtles (Cuff and Link) were still alive as of 2021.

CR: The Steadicam run up the museum steps to Gonna Fly Now. 'Actually great shot Garrett, because he's the Steadicam inventor.' Also: the 5 AM training ending with a wide shot of Philly.

• Bill: Gonna Fly Now.
• CR: 'Reflections,' which samples Kool and the Gang and was later sampled by Fresh Prince for 'Summertime.'
• Van: The record at the end of the movie that was sampled by Notorious B.I.G. for 'Victory.'

• Bill: Paulie, or the 'Rocky'-Adrian courting scenes – '25 minutes of content that now you'd probably do in 9.' He likes the skating rink but admits the transcript would be 'the worst transcript ever.'
• CR: Also Paulie. 'I go out and get your meat every morning. I didn't get married because of you. You owe me.' He also thinks the skating rink scene should have ended with a kiss there instead of going back to Rocky's apartment.

• All: Everything about Paulie. Van created a flex category: 'The Paulie Award for Asshole of the Film.' Van: 'Very few characters that are pure asshole, just all asshole.' He pimps his sister out, throws the Thanksgiving turkey, calls her busted, insults her age and looks, and eventually loses all of Rocky's money through power of attorney.
• CR: Rocky's advice to 12-year-old Marie – 'you use bad words and maybe you end up becoming a whore.' Bill: And then she becomes Rocky's love interest in 'Rocky' Balboa. 'That's the girl he starts dating.'
• Bill: Chuck Wepner's whole story. The fight crowd scenes – obviously too empty on Blu-ray. Garrett Brown not taking points in the picture.

Bill: Adrian freaking out on Paulie – 'she goes up a level.' Van: 'When she turns it up, sometimes it gets away from her' – comparing it to the Connie/Carlo scene in 'The Godfather'.

• Van: This is the beginning of the greatest love story of our time – 'Rocky' and Apollo.
• Bill: 'If this movie didn't exist, 'Philadelphia' would basically be Delaware with more attitude, a nicer Art Museum, and a couple pro sports teams.' CR objected strongly.

• United Artists wanted Redford, Ryan O'Neal, Burt Reynolds, and James Caan. Bill: 'I think 'Rocky' being an unknown really helps.' Van: 'Those guys are just too movie-starish.'
• Ken Norton was targeted for Apollo Creed, pulled out, and they gave it to Carl Weathers.
• Stallone wanted Harvey Keitel as Paulie (probably a better movie). Lee Strasberg was wanted for Mickey but wanted too much money.
• Carrie Snodgrass was chosen for Adrian but had a money dispute. Susan Sarandon and Cher auditioned; Sarandon was liked but deemed too pretty.
• CR's recast: James Caan as 'Rocky', Harvey Keitel or John Cazale as Paulie.

CR: Thayer David as Jergens the promoter. Bill: Joe Spinell as Gazzo is graduated from that-guy status. Also: Stan Shaw as Dipper, Frank Stallone as the doo-wop singer.

Bill: Gazzo's Driver (Buddy) – 'Hey Rock, you get the number of the license plate that hit your face?' Every time he's on screen you're laughing. Also: Marie the teenage delinquent, Tony Burton as Duke, Joe Spinell as Gazzo.

Bill: Not touching it – it's perfect casting. CR: There's a version with James Caan as 'Rocky' and Harvey Keitel or John Cazale as Paulie that would be more of a straight drama.

• Duke didn't have a name in 'Rocky' 1 – he wasn't named until 'Rocky' 2.
• The ice skating date was shot with minimal extras because they couldn't afford them.
• Burgess Meredith wore a fake cauliflower ear and tube up his nostril. Burt Young covered himself with vermouth and wore too many clothes to feel uncomfortable.
• The climactic fight wasn't choreographed initially – they had to stop and plan it.
• The poster mistake ('they got my trunks wrong') was a real production error they wrote a scene around.
• There was a union issue in Philly, so most of the fight was filmed in LA instead of the Spectrum.
• Stallone quit smoking after 'Rocky' because he smoked so much on set.
• The original script had 'Rocky' throwing the fight and Mickey as a racist – both were softened.

• Stallone: No – Bill thinks 'Rocky' 3/'First Blood' same year (1982) is the apex.
• CR: Is this Apex Mountain for a woman taking her glasses off and getting that much hotter? Van couldn't top it. Also: shy girlfriends, withholding sex while training (vs. Bull Durham).
• Talia Shire: Yes.
• John G. Avildsen: Could make a case for Karate Kid instead. He has both 'Rocky' and Karate Kid.
• 'Philadelphia': CR nominates 1776 (the founding). Bill: 'The 83 Sixers title.' But 'Rocky' is on the city's Mount Rushmore.
• Burt Young: Probably 'Rocky' 3 when the character becomes more tolerable. Best Burt Young is Back to School with Rodney Dangerfield.
• Spider Rico: Yes. Ice skating dates: Yes (though 'Happy Gilmore' competes). Boxing movies: This or Raging Bull.

Bill: Scorsese – who made Raging Bull a few years later. CR: 'Is this the perfect movie if they co-directed? The inspirational side of Spielberg, the gritty side of Scorsese.' Van: Scorsese handles the 'Rocky'/Paulie stuff, Spielberg gets the final fight.

• Van and Bill: Paulie.
• CR: Gazzo's Driver. Also: Jergens.

• Bill: 'Rocky' just waltzes into the empty Spectrum the day before the fight to look around – nobody's in there. Also: 15 weeks is 'plenty of time' – they make it seem like nobody will take the fight, but 40 guys would take 150 grand in 1976 to fight the champ.
• CR: The Mickey reconciliation scene – Rocky's monologue at regular speaking volume, Mickey halfway down the hallway and almost outside. 'I can't hear my wife in the other room if the water is on. There's no way 76-year-old Mick who's been punched in the head 7,000 times can hear this.'
• Van: Somebody would have gotten to Adrian before 'Rocky' – 'there's just no way in the neighborhood someone wouldn't have gotten to her.'
• Bill: The string-around-the-ankles trick seems dubious. What else does Mickey teach him? 'Women weaken legs, go to the body, you need better balance. That's three things.'

They've done all of it – 5 sequels and 3 'Creed' movies. Bill: 'We're done with 'Rocky'. Let's stop.' CR mentioned Amazon/MGM was planning a 'Creed' universe expansion.

• Bill: Gazzo's Driver as a recurring character going forward – 'Take her to the zoo.' Also: Tony Romo – 'She's got a hop in her step, Jim. She loves having sex. Jim, it's a sexual awakening, Jim.'
• CR: Movie is better with more Gazzo scenes and fewer Paulie scenes.

Bill: Stallone for screenplay.

• Bill: Do women weaken legs? Van: 'HBO Boxing did a whole thing called Sex and the Sweet Science. There's no scientific proof. Women do not, in fact, weaken legs.'
• Bill: What would Rocky's FanDuel odds be? Guessing 'Creed' at -2000, 'Rocky' at +3000 (30-to-1). Over/under for rounds: 2.5.

• Bill: The gloves from the fight. The Italian Stallion grey sweatshirt ('he wears it for three months straight, can't imagine it smells awesome'). Jergens's office poster. Mickey's training camp pullover.
• Van: Rocky's gloves or the photo of young Mickey as a fighter.
• CR: The posters outside the gym.

• Bill: Don't let anyone tell you you're a bum.
• CR: Be a thinker, not a stinker.
• Van: You'd be happier if you were just dumber – 'Rocky is a dumb, happy character.'

• CR: Raging Bull.
• Van: 'Saturday Night Fever' – 'this movie made me want to watch 'Saturday Night Fever' for some reason.'
• Bill: 'Rocky' 2 – 'make sure you skip over about 40 minutes when Adrian goes in a coma.'

All: Sylvester Stallone. Bill: 'Have we ever had somebody win a movie harder than this? This might be the number one who won the movie ever.' As writer and star, coming from complete obscurity. CR: 'We could rename it the Stallone Who Won the Movie Award.' Only comparable examples: Tarantino (but he had 'Reservoir Dogs'), Orson Welles (already a boy genius from radio).