July 06, 2020
'St. Elmo's Fire'
The Ringer's Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan just broke your heart. Then again, they break everyone's hearts. It's time for the 1985 classic 'St. Elmo's Fire,' starring Judd Nelson, Emilio Estevez, Demi Moore, and Rob Lowe.
Cast
Rob Lowe as Billy Hicks
Demi Moore as Jules
Emilio Estevez as Kirby (Kirbo)
Andrew McCarthy as Kevin
Judd Nelson as Alec
Ally Sheedy as Leslie
Mare Winningham as Wendy
Andie MacDowell as Dale Biberman
Directed by: Joel Schumacher
Written by: Joel Schumacher, Carl Kurlander
Music by: David Foster
Notes
- Joel Schumacher had just passed away, which was part of the reason for doing this episode.
- Made nearly $38 million at the box office on a $10 million budget.
- The film was announced in 1984 by producer Ned Tanen right after 'The Big Chill', so it was nicknamed 'The Little Chill'.
- Five of the seven cast members were really tight (partying together); Andrew McCarthy felt apart from the group; Mare Winningham had a kid.
- The Brat Pack article by David Blum in New York Magazine was probably the most famous Hollywood article of the 1980s – crystallized the label in common parlance.
- Columbia Pictures sent a 35-page memo objecting to the title; one alternative was 'The Real World'.
- Georgetown wouldn't permit filming; used University of Maryland instead. Schumacher asked a priest about 'The Exorcist' filming there; the priest replied 'Yes, but in 'The Exorcist', God wins over the devil, which does not seem to be the case in your movie'.
- Rob Lowe brought a six-pack of beer to his meeting with Schumacher to prove he could be a bad boy for the Billy role; the studio wanted him for the Judd Nelson part instead.
- Rob Lowe learned to play sax for the movie, based on ripping off Clarence Clemons from the E Street Band.
- Emilio Estevez and Demi Moore got engaged during/after filming, made 'Wisdom' together which bombed, then broke up.
- The shower curtain coming off in the Sheedy/McCarthy sex scene was an accident – Schumacher yelled 'your f***ing action' which made Sheedy burst into tears; McCarthy stood up naked and confronted Schumacher.
- The 'St. Elmo's Fire' bar street is on the Universal backlot; 2-3 buildings to the left is the Hill Valley Clock Tower from 'Back to the Future'.
- Rob Lowe on cocaine culture: it was sold on every movie set he was ever on; compares cocaine culture then to wine culture now.
- Bill wrote a 2001 column about Terry Glenn built around the Billy Hicks character – 'The Seven Stages of Billy Hicks'.
- Includes an appended Rob Lowe interview segment at the end of the episode.
Categories
Most re-watchable scene
- Billy's big sax scene at the New Breed Halloween night – 'the longest sax solo this side of A Love Supreme' (Bill's pick).
- Opening credits – wide shot of Georgetown, the music, seven people walking arm-in-arm toward camera.
- First 'St. Elmo's Fire' bar scene – everyone in their habitat.
- Leslie moves out of Alec's apartment / dividing up the records – 'No Springsteen is leaving this house'.
- Jules and Billy in the car – 'You break my heart. Then again, you break everyone's heart'.
What aged the best?
- Jules as a character – 'one of my favorite 80s characters, hands down' (Bill's pick).
- The musical exchanges/pitter-patter dialogue between characters (Chris's pick) – 'Forever got a lot shorter all of a sudden,' 'Haven't you heard of the sexual revolution?' / 'Who won?' / 'Nobody'.
- Great title – Columbia Pictures hated it, sent a 35-page memo with alternatives.
- All the apartments – the glamorous Joel Schumacher version of post-college living.
- The dividing-up-records breakup scene.
- The way Billy Hicks wears ties.
What aged the worst?
- The Kirby/Dale stalking plot – he'd be arrested today with a restraining order; shows up to a black tie event soaking wet, sniffs Dale's roommate's pillow, drives 3 hours uninvited to her ski house.
- Mare Winningham's wardrobe – dressed like a 1950s librarian; the whole subplot of her being 'overweight' is odd.
- Andrew McCarthy is miscast as the cerebral Kevin – his smoking is horrific, he's an unintentional comedy.
- Dale's understanding boyfriend at the ski house who just offers to get Kirby a blanket instead of being alarmed.
Casting what-ifs
- Robert Downey Jr. was considered for Billy; they settled on Rob Lowe after three auditions.
- Anthony Edwards and Lea Thompson came close.
- Emilio Estevez wanted to play Billy; had to settle for Kirby.
- C. Thomas Howell auditioned for Kirby but was too young.
- Charlie Sheen was probably a tiny bit too young but could have played Alec.
- Demi Moore was discovered when she stormed out of a John Hughes audition; Schumacher saw her in the Columbia Pictures bungalow.
- Madonna was discussed for Jules or another role.
Over-acting award
- Judd Nelson – 'No Springsteen is leaving this house' scene (winner).
- Rob Lowe's scene with Felicia after he goes back to college.
- A couple of Emilio Estevez moments with Dale/roommates.
Best "that guy"
- Whip Hubley – Dale's boyfriend at the ski house (winner).
- Matthew Laurance as Ron – was in Eddie and the Cruisers, settled on 90210 as David Silver's dad Mel Silver.
- Andie MacDowell – in about 45 seconds, looks great, launched her career.
- The hooker – 'she was in The Shield, she was in Friday – she's a legend'.
Re-casting couch
- Robert Downey Jr. as Kevin instead of Andrew McCarthy (Bill's main pick).
- Daphne Zuniga for the Mare Winningham/Wendy part.
- Helen Slater as Leslie.
- Linda Fiorentino as Jules.
Half-assed (internet) research
- The 'St. Elmo's Fire' bar is based on The Tombs, a popular Georgetown watering hole.
- The bar street on the Universal backlot is 2-3 buildings from the 'Back to the Future' Clock Tower.
- Carl Kurlander was Schumacher's assistant who pitched the idea; they co-wrote it together.
- Rob Lowe had courtside Lakers tickets and a new Porsche; Demi Moore lived at the Neutral Tower.
- Research drawn from the book 'You Couldn't Ignore Me If You Tried' by Susannah Gora.
Apex Mountain
- Judd Nelson: Yes – Breakfast Club comes right before, then this.
- Ally Sheedy: Yes.
- John Parr (the song's artist): Yes.
- The 1982 Jeep CJ-7: Yes – 'what an incredible car'.
- Rob Lowe: No – 'About Last Night' the following year.
- Andrew McCarthy: No – Weekend at Bernie's or Mannequin instead.
- Demi Moore: No – signing the Striptease contract is probably her Apex.
- Emilio Estevez: No – probably Young Guns.
Best needle drop
- 'St. Elmo's Fire (Man in Motion)' by John Parr – hit #1 in America.
- David Foster wrote the first-ever film soundtrack.
- 'One Love' – the song Billy's band plays at the Halloween New Breed gig.
- Aretha Franklin – Kevin dancing to her in the apartment.
(Probably) unanswerable questions
- What happened to all these characters after the movie?
- Kevin's writing career – what kind of writer does he become?
- Can you kill yourself by freezing to death in a Washington DC apartment?
- Is Kevin gay? In a 2020 remake, that would be one of the twists.
- Do you think Patrick Ewing likes this movie?
- Why is Jules the fulcrum of the drama at the end when we spend way more time with Wendy's family?
Picking nits
- How do you lose all your possessions because of a cocaine problem? The bank repossesses every piece of furniture including a $10 poster.
- The sequencing on Kirby's party night – it's a 14-hour night with impossible logistics.
- Billy gets a DUI, gets bailed out, and they get to 'St. Elmo's Fire' that same night – can you bail somebody out in 40 minutes?
- Billy only has 'seven active brain cells' yet delivers a profound nautical-history-based analogy to save Jules.
Who won the movie?
- Co-winners: Demi Moore and Rob Lowe.
- Chris says Demi Moore – 'a star-making performance, she's really good, feels like a real person'.
- Bill says Rob Lowe and Demi Moore are co-winners.
- Judd Nelson was a finalist – every scene he's in is great.
- Rob Lowe was only 20 when filming.
Sequel, prequel, prestige TV or untouchable?
- Absolutely could be a 10-episode Netflix show.
- Topher Grace tried to make it as a TV show around 2009.
- Could do a Cobra Kai approach: modernize it, maybe have Jules's son at Georgetown.
- In the 2020 version, Kevin being gay could be one of the twists.